tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5542369259513248152.post5817162107707252048..comments2013-11-12T06:21:32.893-05:00Comments on Learning the Faith: Sola Fide...Carlus Henryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10118327352251205251noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5542369259513248152.post-67898117976387653072008-10-01T15:31:00.000-04:002008-10-01T15:31:00.000-04:00To be clear on this topic, the works that I am tal...To be clear on this topic, the works that I am talking about are not the works of Man, but of God.<BR/><BR/>We are all saved by God's Grace Alone. It is completely undeserved. However, it is a daily choice of ours to work within that Grace to do God's Work. Not my work because I do not have neither the will or desire to do it, outside of God's Grace. We have to cooperate with the Grace that God gives us.<BR/><BR/><I>The merit of man before God in the Christian life arises from the fact that God has freely chosen to associate man with the work of his grace. The fatherly action of God is first on his own initiative, and then follows man's free acting through his collaboration, so that the merit of good works is to be attributed in the first place to the grace of God, then to the faithful. Man's merit, moreover, itself is due to God, for his good actions proceed in Christ, from the predispositions and assistance given by the Holy Spirit.</I>(<A HREF="http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2008.htm" REL="nofollow">CCC 2008</A>)<BR/><BR/>At the same time, I believe that it would be a sin to deny working within the Grace that God has given. It is basically saying <B>NO</B> to God. In this fashion, I do believe is what Jesus separated the sheep from the goats(<A HREF="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2025:31-46;&version=31;" REL="nofollow">Matthew 25:31-46</A>)<BR/><BR/>I hope that this point clarifies my position more.<BR/><BR/>Peace to you all...Carlus Henryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118327352251205251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5542369259513248152.post-11276245431852635752008-09-28T23:06:00.000-04:002008-09-28T23:06:00.000-04:00Adam,Let me first commend you on the stance that y...Adam,<BR/><BR/>Let me first commend you on the stance that you are taking, because most of what you said I completely agree with.<BR/><BR/>If you are saying that only the right kind of faith, the faith that is necessary for justification and righteousness, cannot exist without works, then we <B>absolutely</B> agree. <BR/><BR/>If you were to tell me, which you didn't, that we are saved and justified before God through Faith Alone I could not agree with you. <BR/><BR/>One of the dangers in believing in Faith Alone without works, is that it can lead people to be lazy for Christ. Since their salvation is assured, the work is done and there is nothing more to do - Faith Alone justifies me.<BR/><BR/>Like you said, it has to be both faith and works working together, through the Grace of God which is what Catholics believe.<BR/><BR/>Regarding Abraham and his justification. Abraham believed in God and was therefore justified (<A HREF="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=4&version=31" REL="nofollow">Romans 4</A>) because of his belief. Abraham also was willing to sacrifice his son Isaac and because of that action was considered justified (<A HREF="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James%202:21-24;&version=31;" REL="nofollow">James 2:21-26</A>). You see, justification is not a one time occurrence, but an ongoing process. We both agree that you cannot simply respond to the altar call, and consider your salvation sealed.Carlus Henryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118327352251205251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5542369259513248152.post-83821057790641117882008-09-28T20:35:00.000-04:002008-09-28T20:35:00.000-04:00Carlus,I did some reading this weekend in Romans, ...Carlus,<BR/><BR/>I did some reading this weekend in Romans, Galatians, Ephesians, and James to gain more more of a background on the subject we're discussing.<BR/><BR/>I think that James was making the point that we don't need anything but the right kind of faith to be saved by God and that our faith produces deeds/works. He uses Abraham as example in the passage to show that Abraham had true faith in God. He trusted God so much that he was willing to offer his son on the altar. That didn't <I>earn</I> him anything with God, but it did show/prove that his faith was authentic.<BR/><BR/>Paul and James both used Abraham in their passages about faith. Paul used him in a way that shows he was justified on the basis of real faith. James used him to show that Abraham's faith was proven to be real because it worked.<BR/><BR/>I guess what I'm getting at is I don't think that Paul and James were contradicting each other, I just think that they were driving home different points. I think that James is really driving the point home that we don't just receive our salvation and then think that we're good to go. Faith without deeds is dead.<BR/><BR/>I don't think that we can have authentic faith and not do good deeds/works. The right faith leads to the right actions. It's our faith though that is the basis of our salvation.<BR/><BR/>So is faith enough? Yes. Faith will drive our behavior to show if it's real faith or not.<BR/><BR/>God Bless!<BR/><BR/>AdamAdam Sovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12918491140730823587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5542369259513248152.post-32251512408246196992008-09-26T16:53:00.000-04:002008-09-26T16:53:00.000-04:00Adam.We both believe that Holy Scripture is from G...Adam.<BR/><BR/>We both believe that Holy Scripture is from God - therefore incapable of being contradictory.<BR/><BR/>Before I begin, I would like to bring to mind that this verse never states <B>faith alone</B>. To say that these verses support <B>faith alone</B>, is just not true. If anything, one can misinterpret it to say that we are saved outside of works - but not faith alone. Never in the Bible does it say faith alone are we saved, which is the point of this blog entry. <B>Faith Alone</B>, my argument is not Biblical.<BR/><BR/>So what do we make of this scripture passage? It falls completely in line with what the Church teaches, specifically:<BR/><BR/><I>For it is by <B>grace</B> you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works so that no one can boast</I><BR/><A HREF="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Eph%202:8-10;&version=31;" REL="nofollow">Eph. 2:8-10</A><BR/><BR/>We are saved through grace alone...which is one of the Five Solas that the Church does agree with. Nothing but the undeserved merit of Jesus Christ on the Cross is going to allow anyone into Heaven.<BR/><BR/>So what is Paul talking about his letter to the Ephesians? James just said that we are saved by faith and works and definitely not by faith alone while Paul just said we are saved by grace through faith apart from works. What are the works that Paul is referring to? I believe that the works that Paul is referring to, are once again the works of Mosaic Law. We can see that this is his message in this letter because in the verses following, he starts to talk about the Gentiles and the Jews again - once separated by the Law of Moses, which no longer applies in the new covenant open to Gentiles (<A HREF="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians%202:12-15;&version=31;" REL="nofollow">Ephesians 2:12-15</A>)<BR/><BR/>After doing a little bit of reading from Scripture Catholic, I found this <A HREF="http://www.scripturecatholic.com/justification_qa.html#gracevworks" REL="nofollow">interchange</A>. This by itself is worth reading, along with the other email interchanges that he has shared on this page.Carlus Henryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118327352251205251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5542369259513248152.post-9094034761775696022008-09-26T15:42:00.000-04:002008-09-26T15:42:00.000-04:00Hey Carlus.I was reading your post and I immediate...Hey Carlus.<BR/><BR/>I was reading your post and I immediately thought of another passage that seems to support the idea of <B>faith alone</B>. I'm curious for your comments on it.<BR/><BR/>The passage I'm referring to is <A HREF="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Eph%202:8-10;&version=31;" REL="nofollow">Eph 2:8-10</A>. My take on this passage is that our salvation is a gift from God through our faith. Good works do not <I>count</I> towards our salvation.<BR/><BR/>Are we here to do good works? Absolutely. Are they required for salvation? I don't believe that they are. I think that our good works are a result of us understanding what is desired of us. When someone truly believes in Christ, they will follow him. When someone follows him they try to understand what we're here for and what is expected of us. I don't do good works because I think that it's going to get me closer to God, I do good works because of my love for God.<BR/><BR/>I look forward to your response.<BR/><BR/>God Bless<BR/><BR/>AdamAdam Sovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12918491140730823587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5542369259513248152.post-77050605831721855142008-09-26T14:31:00.000-04:002008-09-26T14:31:00.000-04:00It is definitely worth noting that recently, there...It is definitely worth noting that recently, there has been an agreement reached between the Catholic Church and the Lutheran World Federation regarding Justification. If interested, that document can be read <A HREF="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html" REL="nofollow">here</A>.Carlus Henryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118327352251205251noreply@blogger.com